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Today I am exceptionally excited to have the YouTuber Discourse on the site for an interview. Discourse’s channel is relatively new, but growing very quickly due to it’s smart and relevant content. She is never afraid of going after a controversy or speaking her mind, and even when I don’t agree with everything she says I find intelligence and insight in her commentary. Without further ado, let’s get into the interview. 

Wargame Explorer: What was the very first thing that got you involved in wargaming?

Discourse: I have fond, almost primordial memories of walking past a Games Workshop store when really young. I was always fascinated by the miniatures, and the fun that seemed to be happening inside. It felt like another world. I can’t remember a time in my life where I wasn’t vaguely aware of miniature wargaming to some extent. That said, it wasn’t until I first played Dawn of War in 2004 that inspired me to finally take the plunge and try out Warhammer 40k for the first time.

I started with the Witchhunters codex, so basically a lot of Sisters of Battle! At the time they were all metal models, and I found them miserable to work with. I quickly moved on to the Imperial Guard and had a much better time. But I was blown away by how expensive wargaming was, and I actually ended up getting a job in a pub at a (probably too) young age to pay for the habit. I don’t come from a well-off background, so it has always been a struggle to keep up with the constant monetary grind of Warhammer. Unfortunately, what was true then is even more true now.

WE: In your channel you have sometimes been accused of being too negative, and in a recent video you’ve addressed this. What would you say to detractors who think that you’re too pessimistic about the future of Games Workshop?

Discourse: The increasing focus on big spenders, also known as “whales” in the gaming industry (though, let’s never forget that the term came from the casino industry first). This is a monetization strategy that works to bring in large amounts of money from small numbers of hobbyists, as the main means of generating profit. This has huge ramifications for the miniature wargaming marketplace, as consumers are increasingly exploited and burnt out when they can’t keep up. This is something I’ve witnessed happen in other hobby-adjacent industries, like the video-game marketplace. The normalization of these techniques by a few pioneers in the video-game space was a huge reason for their eventual widespread adoption across the board. As it stands right now, only Games Workshop are diving head-first into this strategy. I’m concerned that as they find short-term success with this strategy, it will encourage other companies to follow their lead. This would be a disaster for the hobby. But Games Workshop can change. Their business model isn’t inevitable. And I think it’s our responsibility to push back on this – because as seductive as it is, I don’t think it’s the path to long-term success for them either.

Adjacent to this problem, a big issue with Games Workshop is that they are the top of the funnel for most new miniature wargame hobbyists. In a lot of ways Games Workshop have done a great job advertising the hobby and keeping it visible – from the strength of their IP to the prevalence of their stores. But they also act as a gatekeeper to the hobby. As they continue to focus on exploiting average consumers, and transforming them into whales, they will inevitably alienate large swathes of their customer base who either can’t afford to keep up and so drop out, while squeezing the few who will still try to keep up. Only a fraction of the “drop-out” players will try new games, and many may just leave the hobby entirely.

This is a huge problem, and represents an existential threat to the hobby. I don’t think it’s unfair to criticize these practices as and when I see them, because it’s only by doing so that this might be reversed. We’ve recently seen a huge number of new hobbyists join; I’m just hoping that they don’t get put off by some of the sales techniques from Games Workshop. But that said, I feel like I’m really optimistic for the hobby as a whole!

WE: What made you decide to take the plunge into YouTubing?

Discourse: I think lockdown has made a lot of us reflect on our lives and what we want to do with it. I have a legal background, but it was never a particular passion for me. I originally started the channel as a mild distraction, but as the platform grew, I realized that there was an opportunity to try and influence the hobby for the better – to a small extent at least! I’ve always felt that there’s been a lack of vocal critics who act in good-faith within the hobby, so I wanted to try and redress that issue and fill the gap.

That and making silly skits is a lot of fun!

WE: Do you have to deal with a lot of arguments on your channel, and if you do, how do you handle that confrontation?

Discourse: I think that we actually have a great community both in the comments and on Discord. There can certainly be arguments here and there, and sometimes the channel can be a flashpoint for pretty committed defenders of Games Workshop corporate practices and those who take great exception to those practices. That said, most of the time things are quite civil!

In terms of handling confrontation, I think that debate is healthy for these sorts of topics. Certainly, discussion has to occur and so long as people aren’t attacking others on a human level, I tend to let things ride out. Honestly, I’m still trying to figure out myself how much I want to curate the community that has come together. Obviously, I want everyone to feel welcome because ultimately the channel is for all hobbyists, but I want to make sure that all hobbyists are indeed welcome which isn’t always the result of lax policies on what sort of behaviour is tolerated. A work in progress, I’d say!

WE: If you could make any change to one IP, what would it be and why?

Discourse: Oh wow. Probably Command and Conquer 4, I’d just get rid of it. If I had a genie with one wish, that would be it. Wait, why don’t I just wish for a new Command and Conquer game? Damnit.

But closer to the miniature wargaming space, I think I’d probably get rid of Clones in Star Wars Legion. I know that this will upset the vast majority of Star Wars Legion players, but those Clone Troopers are just so much better than my Empire Stormtroopers and it makes me incredibly salty. So there.

WE: What makes you most pessimistic about the hobby?

Discourse: The increasing rate of sophisticated monetization strategies being employed by larger companies. This ties into the focus on whales as mentioned previously, but also in the increasing use of FOMO strategies in selling product. FOMO is to some extent always going to be utilized, but the nakedly aggressive way that Games Workshop have been deploying it in recent memory is a real concern. They don’t seem to really be slowing down much either, even though the community are obviously very vocal about disliking it.

To be honest, though, I’m mostly concerned that Games Workshop have grown too used to the profit from big spenders to truly ween themselves off it. There’s definitely a more a successful business model to be had in pursuing the majority of hobbyists by selling them quality miniatures at a fair price. This builds goodwill in the community, and makes the hobby more attractive to new players. But instead, Games Workshop are focusing on building their IP, increasing prices and limiting access to models to put pressure on consumers to buy while they can. This destroys goodwill, and burns out existing hobbyists. But, if they sell less miniatures and yet make more money, then the job’s a good ‘un boss as far as they’re concerned.

Unfortunately, Games Workshop are doing what they are designed to do: they are maximizing profit at all costs. This is a big problem for the hobby, because this optimization of profit is coming at the expense of consumers. This is the same death bell that I’ve seen rung for other hobbies too. Video-games, for example, are probably the most noticeable one for me. I grew up alongside video-games, and after miniatures, they were my second pillar of lost-time. Unfortunately, over the last ten years, I’ve slowly grown more and more alienated from them, as I’ve witnessed the relentless march of microtransactions, upselling of insignificant add-ons, Day 1 DLC, lootboxes, aggressive nickel-and-diming, and a focus on preying on players with addictions… It ruined video games for me, to the extent that I rarely play them now.

I am a refugee from the video-game market, and I come bearing a dreadful message: it can happen here.

Obviously we should be careful not to conflate Games Workshop with the hobby as a whole (after all, that’s exactly what all their marketing material wants you to think). They may be the biggest shark in the water, but they’re far from the only one, and there is a lot of great companies out there. The issue is that a large proportion of hobbyists play Games Workshop products and so their practices impact more hobbyists than the actions of any other company in this space, but also that as Games Workshop continue to make money through these decisions, it will embolden other companies to try the same techniques.

Still there are developments in the hobby that provide some pretty good reasons to be optimistic for the hobby as a whole.

WE: What makes you most optimistic about the hobby?

Discourse: I think that it feels like there’s been an explosion of miniature agnostic game systems in the last few years. Between One Page Rules, Warsurge, Frostgrave, Zona Alfa etc. etc. there’s just so much choice! And I do think we’re seeing more hobbyists check out systems other than Games Workshop’s stable.

Combine this march of miniature agnostic rulesets with the rising availability of 3D printing and we’ve got a match made in heaven. Whether it’s printing models at home, or simply renting 3D printers from 3^rd parties, it’s so cool to see it become more accessible and affordable than ever. I’m really looking forward to see how this continues to develop in the next few years.

Most importantly though, I think that the last two years have seen a huge increase in both the number and variety of people who are getting into miniature wargaming. The hobby feels bigger, and even reinvigorated in a lot of ways. I feel like we are on the cusp of a new golden age, honestly, because as far as I’m concerned, the more people in the hobby the better it becomes.

Except for people who can paint realistic eyes on their miniatures. They consistently make me look bad, so less of that please.

WE: What other creators (YouTubers, bloggers, painters, terrain builders) do you think aren’t getting enough attention?

Discourse: I’m a big fan of Modelling for Advantage. They do battle reports for a variety of games, but their unboxing videos are always a delight. They don’t just unbox the models, but talk about the context of the miniatures and the history of why they’ve been designed the way they are and all sorts of other related ancillary information. I always feel like I come out of their videos knowing a lot more about history!

I also quite like Miniature Wargaming Labs. They’re a really small channel, but they spotlight some really obscure models and games, and they always approach every purchase from the perspective of trying to maximize saving money. In short, they are the ultimate guide to being a thrifty consumer. I really dig that!

 

Thank you to Discourse for being interviewed! If you want to follow her, you can check out her YouTube channel and her Twitter.